Scott Slater and Adam Ming Discuss DOWN THE HOLE
Welcome, Kidlit Kitchen readers! Today, I’m serving up an exclusive behind-the-scenes look at the making of Down the Hole, one of my favorite picture books from 2023.
Join me as I chat with author Scott Slater and illustrator Adam Ming, the dynamic duo behind this hilarious tale.
From the inception of the story to the details of its illustrations, get ready to explore the journey of bringing this fantastic book to life.
RT: You both know I love this book. When I read it to our kids for the first time, we all laughed a lot and were enthralled by the story and illustrations. There’s a lot to appreciate here. To start things off, Scott, can you talk a little about your inspiration(s) for the story and how it developed over time?
SS: Hi Ryan, thank you so much for asking us here to talk about our book. It makes me so happy to know that you and your kids enjoyed Down the Hole. That’s what it’s all about for me, our book connecting with people. In terms of inspiration for the story, it really started with a doodle I did one day of a fox/wolf sitting next to a hole. When I was done, I looked at it and said, “He’s waiting for somebody.” But then I immediately thought “Or what if somebody is waiting for him!” That was the seed for it. So, with that premise in mind, the overall story came together quickly. I had the idea for the repetition for the beginning and end, so it was just working through different ideas on how to phrase it. The middle section with the back and forth between Rabbit and Fox was where I spent most of my time. Deciding how they were going to try and outwit each other, what Rabbit was going to think he heard and how Fox would try to persuade him to come up out of the hole were the pieces that took the longest to put together. I looked back through my notes and drafts when I read this question to see how much the story had changed, and surprisingly, it didn’t change that much. The ideas were all there, it was just the wording I chose that had changed. For example, in my first pass of notes, this was an idea for the opening section:
“Fox sat down next to the hole. This was no accident. He knew there were rabbits in there. Not as many as before of course, but he wasn't feeling that hungry today anyway.”
There were also some things that never made it in. I played around with the idea that Fox would be wearing a neckerchief and holding a fork and knife as he sat outside the hole, and I had this rough dialogue in my idea notes:
Rabbit - Is that a dinner napkin you're wearing?
Fox- What? Oh this? why no. This was a gift from my very dear grandmother, and I never go anywhere without it. It's a good luck charm really.
Rabbit - Are you holding a knife and a fork?
Fox- Is that what these are? I only use them to clear branches from the paths, so bunnies don't get caught in the bramble. I was told that's what they are for and so that's what I use them for.
RT: This is a debut picture book for both of you! Congratulations again. Would you mind sharing a little about what you learned about the publishing process? Anything you found particularly surprising or interesting?
SS: Thank you! It’s great to have it out in the world! I feel like I really learned a lot about the publishing process with our first book. The amount of time it takes from when you sell your story to when it finally arrives on shelves is something you have to be patient with. But I also learned that it takes that much time because so many people are working behind the scenes to get your book out into the world and putting it in a position to do as well as it possibly can. That was eye opening for sure, I didn’t realize the scope of that. So, a big thank you to everyone at HarperCollins, and booksellers everywhere!
AM: I’m starting to forget what it was like in the beginning as I'm now working on my 10th book. For the most part, it was not surprising at all because I had been working for over a year to learn everything I could about the industry, talking to designers, illustrators,commissioners agents and art directors, so a lot of it went pretty much to plan. In fact I remember Kait (editor) saying she could scarcely believe it was my first book because I was on top of everything. I had been preparing for this moment, so I had already rehearsed through all the surprises.
There was one surprise, and I think it helped make the book great, and it’s something Kait said to me. “Think of it as your book now.” And I did. It felt like a team sport and I was being passed the ball, I would have to pass it back eventually, but for now, it’s mine to do what I went, and that was great so I leaned into my sensibilities and trusted the team to pull me back if i went too far and they did :)
RT: Adam, when you read the manuscript for the first time, what about it stood out to you? What were some of your initial reactions and ideas? How did your ideas evolve throughout the process of actually illustrating it?
AM: For a year during Covid, I did a webcomic (it’s hidden now) of myself on stage telling jokes like a comedian. This felt like that. I saw the whole thing as a stage act: two comedians with mics doing a skit for the audience, using all their physicality to tell the contradicting meaning to the words being said. I loved the chance to explore this. When we first see the bunny, he is in a spotlight. This is how I saw it.
The evolution is building a world around this original idea, and a lot of it came from Scott and Kait. The underground world and the birthday party were ideas that were not from me. I embraced them and worked them in.
RT: I imagine it’s hard to choose, but I’d love to hear from each of you about your favorite spread and why it’s your favorite.
AM: Not hard at all! The spread of the fox mouth gaping over the hole, this is when we know what we suspected all along about the fox’s motives. I feel it has a classic timeless quality. I read the text and saw this image, and just had to faithfully recreate what I saw.
SS: I know it sounds cliché, but it really is hard to pick one. I love all of Adam’s work. He’s amazing and I’m so happy that it worked out to have him illustrate my manuscript. But if I have to pick just one, I will say my favorite spread is the WARren room scene on pages 8-9. There’s just so much going on, and all the little details that Adam put in. You can really spend a lot of time looking over it and get a sense of how much planning and work that the bunnies are doing. But it’s also seeing our hero bunny standing under the light, that just pops on the page. To me it’s just an iconic illustration, like something out of the movies. Adam captured it perfectly.
RT: Have there been any reactions from readers (kids or adults) that have stood out to you?
SS: For me, one of my friends ordered the book and read it to his son. Then I got a text that said: “The best book he’s read in the entire world!” I just thought that was great, and it stood out as the highest compliment I could get from his son. But anytime a parent says that they enjoy it as much as their kids do, and that it’s on regular rotation at their household, I’m ecstatic. Because as a parent, I know that’s a coveted spot!
AM: My 2 year old had a great reaction to the book, and asked me to retell the story multiple times with and without the book. But the best part was I found her one day in a hole-shaped climber we have at home, ‘reading’ the book on her own. I imagine she was reading the pictures as she can’t read the words. And that meant the world to me because I designed the images to be read.
RT: Kait Feldmann, your editor, seems like such a rockstar. Can you share what it was like working with her?
SS: For me, it was a dream come true. It is no exaggeration to call Kait a rockstar. I really thought I would be sitting on the sidelines just waiting around while Adam did all his amazing illustrator work and finished up the book. Based on things I had heard and read about being an author, I was expecting that once the manuscript was acquired, I wouldn’t see anything until it was complete, and my copies showed up on the doorstep. But Kait was just incredible and let me have a lot of access to the process as it was being put together. I was really excited about that, because seeing the unbelievable work Adam was putting together really helped to keep me motivated during the two and half years of waiting for the final publish date. She was just all-around awesome.
AM: She is absolutely a rockstar (just like everyone else who worked on the book), what i loved about working with her is the push-and-pull relationship we had. It started with her giving me the keys, but then she would challenge certain decisions and make suggestions, I took most of them and saw their genius for what it was. But I also stood firm on somethings, this tension was perfect for drawing out the maximum creative energy from all parties and then managing it and filtering it down to what would serve the book best!
RT: Any advice for kidlit creators who are just getting started?
SS: Just keep creating your art. Find people who do what you do and are just as passionate about it. Take classes, go to seminars and workshops so you can keep learning and growing. Immerse yourself in the community and the art you’re trying to pursue. Look at your favorite artists and study the work they’ve made. A lot of times we’re just seeing the final product from an artist, and we tend to forget that they probably went through the same ups and downs as everyone else in trying to find their story. When I was first getting started, I listened to podcasts, and read a lot of books and interviews by my favorite authors. That led to some “a-ha!” moments which really helped to keep me going as well as make some big breakthroughs with my work. So, I would say read as much as you can, and write as much as you can. Find those things that spark your imagination and help you create new ideas.
AM: Decide if you want to spend 10 years trying to make it work, if not, don’t bother. It’s a painfully slow process.
Still here?
Do it daily.
Find a community to grow alongside.
Scott Slater grew up in the San Francisco Bay Area where he earned a BAS in Animation & Visual Effects. He’s worked as an animator for film, games, television, and commercials. Writing and drawing are his favorite things to do, and he hopes to keep making books that readers and listeners enjoy. He currently lives in Los Angeles with his family.
Adam Ming is a Malaysian illustrator. He grew up on Penang Island where you will find the best food hidden in back alleys and in world heritage buildings. Adam makes witty and energetic illustrations with a comic sensibility. His illustrations jump off the page, with a tactile quality that makes you want to pick them up. Adam is obsessed with the creative process, constantly refining his own practice; which he writes about in his popular “Adam’s Notes” Newsletter. He now lives with his wife and daughter in Kuala Lumpur.
OTHER KIDLIT KITCHEN CONVERSATIONS:
Welcome, Kidlit Kitchen readers! Today, I’m serving up an exclusive behind-the-scenes look at the making of DOWN THE HOLE, one of my favorite picture books from 2023. Join me as I chat with author Scott Slater and illustrator Adam Ming, the dynamic duo behind this hilarious tale. From the inception of the story to the details of its illustrations, get ready to explore the journey of bringing this fantastic book to life.